DUST Search - REMOVE THE MASS DRIVER OR THE TRAIN MAP~!

Vell0cet wrote:

Her Chosen wrote:

tal mrak-thanl wrote:

Killing people who use MDs on that map is so ridiculously easy that your entire argument is essentially a testament to your lack of experience.

Edit: No slight intended, btw. Just trying to give you some feedback.

I can promise you that 6-7 MDs camping across Alpha on that map will win 100% of the time. It has no counter as it's poor map design. The only counter I have seen be effective and multiple core naders spamming from the ground. Because that vantage point in accessible once it's taken.

I've seen multiple games (almost always Russians) where the enemy team crammed 10-12 players on that catwalk spot. Because it's impregnable.

The more the player base learns to play that map by using that fail-safe tactic, the more unenjoyable the game will be, as that map is obsessively in the rotation too much

MD's play the vital role of providing AoE damage. This is a valuable counter tactic to enemies who clump together. Without AoEs, combat devolves into large clumps of enemies running around in a ball. As Pokey points out in a 1v1 situation, nearly all weapons have a significant advantage vs. a MD user. Specific counters to MD users are either scouts getting within shotgun/melee range where it's too close to use your MD without suiciding, using a sentinel suit, using a long range suit and staying mobile (like the RR or the LR) since long range is difficult for the MD user or getting above them. MDs certainly aren't OP, bring important tactical options to the battlefield to counteract enemies balling up, abusing cover, and equipment spam, they're one of the few weapons that do +20% to armor, and they add variety to fights.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5981	Posted - 2015.04.21 20:57:00 - [1] - Quote Wait so you're saying its wrong that certain weapons excel in certain environments? In that case be sure to remove shotguns and HMGs from close quarters areas, and Rail Rifles and Laser Rifles from large open areas. Nothing should ever be allowed to be used in an environment that suits it well. Not even once. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5991	Posted - 2015.04.22 00:04:00 - [2] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Wait so you're saying its wrong that certain weapons excel in certain environments? In that case be sure to remove shotguns and HMGs from close quarters areas, and Rail Rifles and Laser Rifles from large open areas. Nothing should ever be allowed to be used in an environment that suits it well. Not even once. No, it's wrong that a weapon allows you to MISS your target by 6m and still awards you damage, it allows you to shoot BEHIND walls, etc... Every other FPS has nerfed grenade launchers, but in DUST it's a premiere weapon and a fail-safe tactic. Just camp with a MD... And the fact that it terminates clones automatically makes it ever more of a bullsh!t weapon... And as for the train map. Its frequency in the rotation has become sickening Well, let's take a look at this. Proto Mass Driver + Max Skills Base DPS (Direct Hit) = 330 DPS Base DPS (Splash Damage) = 159 DPS Other weapons DPS + Max Skills Assault Scrambler Rifle: 494 DPS Assault Rifle: 453 DPS Assault Combat Rifle: 437 DPS Assault Rail Rifle: 420 DPS So...sure, you can 'miss' by ~6m, and you're going to be doing ~32%-36% the DPS of your common Assault Rifles. Even with direct hits, you're going to only be doing 66%-78% the DPS. Also important to note that against a Sentinel the Splash DPS drops down to a measly 114 DPS, ie "Dont even bother trying" About how low should the splash DPS of the Mass Driver be for you to consider it 'balanced'? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5993	Posted - 2015.04.22 00:38:00 - [3] - Quote Neutral 0.75Base DPS "That little s*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5995	Posted - 2015.04.22 01:44:00 - [4] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Her Chosen wrote: tal mrak-thanl wrote: Killing people who use MDs on that map is so ridiculously easy that your entire argument is essentially a testament to your lack of experience. Edit: No slight intended, btw. Just trying to give you some feedback. I can promise you that 6-7 MDs camping across Alpha on that map will win 100% of the time. It has no counter as it's poor map design. The only counter I have seen be effective and multiple core naders spamming from the ground. Because that vantage point in accessible once it's taken. I've seen multiple games (almost always Russians) where the enemy team crammed 10-12 players on that catwalk spot. Because it's impregnable. The more the player base learns to play that map by using that fail-safe tactic, the more unenjoyable the game will be, as that map is obsessively in the rotation too much MD's play the vital role of providing AoE damage. This is a valuable counter tactic to enemies who clump together. Without AoEs, combat devolves into large clumps of enemies running around in a ball. As Pokey points out in a 1v1 situation, nearly all weapons have a significant advantage vs. a MD user. Specific counters to MD users are either scouts getting within shotgun/melee range where it's too close to use your MD without suiciding, using a sentinel suit, using a long range suit and staying mobile (like the RR or the LR) since long range is difficult for the MD user or getting above them. MDs certainly aren't OP, bring important tactical options to the battlefield to counteract enemies balling up, abusing cover, and equipment spam, they're one of the few weapons that do +20% to armor, and they add variety to fights. The point Im trying to make is that the DPS of a Mass Driver is ill suited for direct combat with almost everything, save perhaps fighting scouts. It will simply be out-dpsed in almost all direct conflict situations. What is is however very good for is area denial by providing sustained DPS over an area to prevent the enemy from moving into a certain position or getting through a certain area. The best way to deal with a Mass Driver, is to engage it directly, preferably from an elevated position since Mass Drivers struggle to deal with anything above them. In other words, they are working as intended. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net